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Very long posts

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Ninny
Posts: 545
Joined: December 13th, 2007, 12:03 pm

Very long posts

#1 Post by Ninny » July 26th, 2016, 8:14 am

Could the moderators limit the length of posts to something reasonable? I ask this because, although I never read overlong posts, I think they might make people abandon this forum. A good idea should, in any case, be expressible in few words!

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jaywhat
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Re: Very long posts

#2 Post by jaywhat » July 26th, 2016, 1:37 pm

I absolutely, definitely and, totally agree.

lewist
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Re: Very long posts

#3 Post by lewist » July 26th, 2016, 9:08 pm

If you can't say it
In fourteen syllables, then
It's not worth saying
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Very long posts

#4 Post by Alan H » July 26th, 2016, 9:19 pm

Ninny wrote:Could the moderators limit the length of posts to something reasonable? I ask this because, although I never read overlong posts, I think they might make people abandon this forum. A good idea should, in any case, be expressible in few words!
If you're referring to the posts by Pahu, then he has been warned about his posts - more because they are simply copied from elsewhere and are not original rather than their length (although the large graphics are unnecessary).
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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animist
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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Very long posts

#5 Post by animist » July 27th, 2016, 8:46 pm

well yes, Ninny, what is wrong in principle with long posts? I don't agree with what Lewis said, and I think that one good feature of TH is that one can argue a point at some length, if necessary, and trust that readers can cope with, and respond to, such posts. I and Emma Woolgatherer and others had what was, to me, an incredibly interesting debate on free will a few years ago, and this conversation featured many long posts. More recently I posted some thoughts on space and time - which in fact did not elicit any responses, but at least I felt free to try and express what I felt. Why should a good idea be expressible in a few words? I would in fact think the opposite, and that our trashy media demonstrate the lesson that sound bites are just that - snippets of opinion which seek to persuade without properly addressing complex issues.

As a poet, are you opposed to long poems?

Nick
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Re: Very long posts

#6 Post by Nick » July 27th, 2016, 10:45 pm

Animist, I am reminder of a Nobel laureate who was invited to describe his Nobel-winning contribution to science in a few words. He replied that if it were possible to do so, then he wouldn't have been awarded a Nobel Prize.

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Tetenterre
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Re: Very long posts

#7 Post by Tetenterre » July 28th, 2016, 9:09 am

animist wrote:More recently I posted some thoughts on space and time - which in fact did not elicit any responses,
Didn't see that; may well have interested me. Can you point me to it?

Re length: It depends entirely on content, IMNSVHO. It's when it's long and rambling/vacuous that I LTWTL. (OTOH, I have suffered from the opposite; I often tend to be terse, especially around this time of the month (*), and this has led to being misunderstood.)


* No, not that! End of month = article deadlines.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

lewist
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Re: Very long posts

#8 Post by lewist » July 28th, 2016, 11:08 pm

Ninny wrote:A good idea should, in any case, be expressible in few words!
Ninny is right. If you can't express ideas with brief clarity, you are not writing well. In fact, a senryu is seventeen syllables, not fourteen. I made a mistake when I typed it. However, the lesson is a good one.

If you can't say it
In seventeen syllables
It's not worth saying

We have an Islamic poster who rambles on the page. He needs to express himself clearly and in about a quarter of the length. Others on the forum generally don't go over the top but the brief, concise post is much easier to respond to.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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animist
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Re: Very long posts

#9 Post by animist » July 29th, 2016, 9:57 am

Tetenterre wrote:
animist wrote:More recently I posted some thoughts on space and time - which in fact did not elicit any responses,
Didn't see that; may well have interested me. Can you point me to it?

Re length: It depends entirely on content, IMNSVHO. It's when it's long and rambling/vacuous that I LTWTL. (OTOH, I have suffered from the opposite; I often tend to be terse, especially around this time of the month (*), and this has led to being misunderstood.)


* No, not that! End of month = article deadlines.
I will dig it out some time, Steve, but I should warn you that it was philosophical rather than scientific and more about our perceptions of time than time itself. You are far more informed on stuff like space and time than I am, and I had been meaning to email you in order to thank you for your scientific and other posts (not that I understand all of them!) We have occasionally been a bit "terse" with each other, and I regret my part in this :smile:

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animist
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Re: Very long posts

#10 Post by animist » July 29th, 2016, 10:00 am

lewist wrote:
Ninny wrote:A good idea should, in any case, be expressible in few words!
Ninny is right. If you can't express ideas with brief clarity, you are not writing well. In fact, a senryu is seventeen syllables, not fourteen. I made a mistake when I typed it. However, the lesson is a good one.

If you can't say it
In seventeen syllables
It's not worth saying

We have an Islamic poster who rambles on the page. He needs to express himself clearly and in about a quarter of the length. Others on the forum generally don't go over the top but the brief, concise post is much easier to respond to.
concision is good, but as Tetenterre points out, acceptable length depends on what content there is. I don't think that "ideas" are tiny self-contained snippets; instead they can form arguments, ie bigger ideas, so I have to disagree with this insistence on brevity. Longer posts can anyway be broken up and replied to in bits; on TH we do this all the time, as you know

lewist
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Re: Very long posts

#11 Post by lewist » July 29th, 2016, 9:43 pm

Animist! In my days as a primary teacher, when we were embarking on a piece of writing, children would often ask, 'How long is it to be?' They would be annoyed with my response, 'as long as it is'.

We can't dictate the length of a piece of writing but it should not be longer than it needs to be. I taught the children the concept of tight writing by using the Senryu and making them put more meaning into the words, starting by scoring out any redundant words in the piece and reshaping it to add more meaning, using words that added meaning.

If you want to convey a complex notion, then simple language with clear and accessible layout is best. It's good manners and it allows you to make your point better. It's not about making a virtue of brevity for its own sake, rather brevity as an aid to communication.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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Ninny
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Re: Very long posts

#12 Post by Ninny » July 30th, 2016, 7:57 am

I suppose my original point should have been that long posts are daunting in appearance, and therefore not often read. If I see a post on here that I can't read in a minute, I simply ignore it. Which is not what the writer would want.

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animist
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Re: Very long posts

#13 Post by animist » July 31st, 2016, 9:52 pm

Ninny wrote:I suppose my original point should have been that long posts are daunting in appearance, and therefore not often read. If I see a post on here that I can't read in a minute, I simply ignore it. Which is not what the writer would want.
so, to repeat my question, what about long poems?

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animist
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Re: Very long posts

#14 Post by animist » July 31st, 2016, 9:53 pm

lewist wrote:Animist! In my days as a primary teacher, when we were embarking on a piece of writing, children would often ask, 'How long is it to be?' They would be annoyed with my response, 'as long as it is'.

We can't dictate the length of a piece of writing but it should not be longer than it needs to be. I taught the children the concept of tight writing by using the Senryu and making them put more meaning into the words, starting by scoring out any redundant words in the piece and reshaping it to add more meaning, using words that added meaning.

If you want to convey a complex notion, then simple language with clear and accessible layout is best. It's good manners and it allows you to make your point better. It's not about making a virtue of brevity for its own sake, rather brevity as an aid to communication.
cannot disagree with this, but you seem to have shifted your ground and to be uttering tautologies and truisms

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Ninny
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Re: Very long posts

#15 Post by Ninny » August 1st, 2016, 8:29 am

animist wrote:
Ninny wrote:I suppose my original point should have been that long posts are daunting in appearance, and therefore not often read. If I see a post on here that I can't read in a minute, I simply ignore it. Which is not what the writer would want.
so, to repeat my question, what about long poems?
Sorry I didn't respond to this at the time. I didn't think you were making a serious comparison between an art form (poetry) and opinions (rarely poetic). All I can say about long poems is that they are long. You can choose whether or not to read them. Some are good, some are not. The only thing long poems and long posts have in common is that they are long.

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animist
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Re: Very long posts

#16 Post by animist » August 1st, 2016, 12:41 pm

Ninny wrote:The only thing long poems and long posts have in common is that they are long.
and also that you can choose whether or not to read them. as you can with long articles on anything under the Sun

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