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Did Jesus exist?

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.

Do you believe Jesus existed?

Definitely
4
6%
Probably
22
35%
Probably not
19
31%
Definitely not
8
13%
Other
9
15%
 
Total votes: 62

Message
Author
philbo
Posts: 591
Joined: December 18th, 2009, 3:09 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#141 Postby philbo » January 1st, 2010, 9:18 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

grammar king wrote:Evidence that someone existed. Not evidence of anything extraordinary whatsoever. If someone in the pub told you about a mate they had 20 years ago you'd have no problem believing them.

I was was talking to this bloke down at the pub, he said that twenty years earlier he'd seen someone on the road who this other bloke he'd spoken to said had been crucified a few days earlier.

I've often wondered: how did Saul know that the guy on the road was the same chap who he was told (without any corroboration) was dead already? The bible doesn't mention DNA analysis, fingerprint checks or even a photo.

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 20907
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#142 Postby Alan H » January 2nd, 2010, 1:36 am

Yeah, but he checked his Facebook account...
Alan Henness

"We're all in this together, but some are more in it than others."
— Me, with apologies to Napoleon

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#143 Postby Marian » January 3rd, 2010, 1:34 am

Maybe or maybe not...
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Ikiru
Posts: 273
Joined: December 26th, 2009, 7:19 am

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#144 Postby Ikiru » January 3rd, 2010, 3:42 am

Eight-year olds, dude...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IONyLZn0pLI :laughter:

(warning: foul language!)
Sketches from Life
“The materials for poetry are all about you in profusion.” ~ Masaoka Shiki

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#145 Postby Marian » January 3rd, 2010, 11:32 am

Ikiru wrote:Eight-year olds, dude...



You said it, man. Nobody f**ks with the Jesus! :laughter:
Transformative fire...

Athena
Site Admin
Posts: 8153
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#146 Postby Athena » April 15th, 2017, 10:26 am

From the Guardian - not particularly convincing, imo but I want to hang on to it.

What is the historical evidence that Jesus lived and died?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 20907
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#147 Postby Alan H » April 15th, 2017, 1:41 pm

Alternatively: EVIDENCE, MIRACLES AND THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS by Stephen Law.
Abstract

The vast majority of Biblical historians believe there is evidence sufficient to place Jesus’ existence beyond reasonable doubt. Many believe the New Testament documents alone suffice firmly to establish Jesus as an actual, historical figure. I question these views. In particular, I argue (i) that the three most popular criteria by which various non-miraculous New Testament claims made about Jesus are supposedly corroborated are not sufficient, either singly or jointly, to place his existence beyond reasonable doubt, and (ii) that a prima facie plausible principle concerning how evidence should be assessed – a principle I call the contamination principle – entails that, given the large proportion of uncorroborated miracle claims made about Jesus in the New Testament documents, we should, in the absence of independent evidence for an historical Jesus, remain sceptical about his existence.
Alan Henness

"We're all in this together, but some are more in it than others."
— Me, with apologies to Napoleon

User avatar
animist
Posts: 5581
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#148 Postby animist » April 17th, 2017, 1:14 pm

Alan H wrote:Alternatively: EVIDENCE, MIRACLES AND THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS by Stephen Law.
Abstract

The vast majority of Biblical historians believe there is evidence sufficient to place Jesus’ existence beyond reasonable doubt. Many believe the New Testament documents alone suffice firmly to establish Jesus as an actual, historical figure. I question these views. In particular, I argue (i) that the three most popular criteria by which various non-miraculous New Testament claims made about Jesus are supposedly corroborated are not sufficient, either singly or jointly, to place his existence beyond reasonable doubt, and (ii) that a prima facie plausible principle concerning how evidence should be assessed – a principle I call the contamination principle – entails that, given the large proportion of uncorroborated miracle claims made about Jesus in the New Testament documents, we should, in the absence of independent evidence for an historical Jesus, remain sceptical about his existence.
I have only quickly read the full paper, and the contamination principle does seem to be interesting. But I would query its basis, which is comparing the Gospels with some hypothetical account from contemporary friends about their claimed acquaintance whom, they claimed, did miraculous things. In fact, we would I think consider this couple to be somewhat deranged if they came up with some such story. I don't think that the miracles etc claimed for Jesus do quite contaminate the claims for his existence in the same way, unless we consider all the gospellers to be deranged; the background to the Gospels is just so remote from us that I don't think the contamination idea works. (This is quite apart from the non-Xian evidences for Jesus's existence which of course do not attribute any miraculous powers to him). Unlike the stories in pagan myths about Jupiter etc doing wondrous things in virtue of the supposed fact that they were obviously divine, the Gospels appear IMO to be "about" someone not clearly divine at the outset of his life.

This is probably not too clear, and I will try to improve it!

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Tetenterre
Posts: 3020
Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#149 Postby Tetenterre » April 17th, 2017, 8:30 pm

Whether or not there was an historical Jesus (Jeshua ben Joseph?), does it matter? There's still no justification for privilege to be given to people on the grounds that they believe (or claim to believe) in the existence of supernatural beings like magic sky-fairies.
Steve

I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. (Richard Feynman)

VINDICATOR
Posts: 125
Joined: December 22nd, 2016, 11:07 am

Re: Did Jesus exist?

#150 Postby VINDICATOR » May 25th, 2017, 3:09 pm

Anyone who is gullible enough to believe all the magic and other hog-wash you find in the book of fairy-tales called the Bible will believe anything you tell them! They are a threat to human destiny!


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