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Free Rice

For news of events, petitions and campaigns that may be of interest to humanists and secularists.
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Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Free Rice

#1 Post by Nick » February 29th, 2016, 10:21 pm

I thought my TH friends might be interested in this. It's not a long term solution to a real problem (and let's hope it doesn't get in the way of a long term solution), but as a short term, emergency measure, I like it! Waddya think?

*nick toddles off to http://www.freerice.com to have a go....*

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Free Rice

#2 Post by Alan H » February 29th, 2016, 10:41 pm

Nick wrote:I thought my TH friends might be interested in this. It's not a long term solution to a real problem (and let's hope it doesn't get in the way of a long term solution), but as a short term, emergency measure, I like it! Waddya think?

*nick toddles off to http://www.freerice.com to have a go....*
What the actual fuck is that? Play this game, get a right answer and the United Nations World Food Programme will give ten grains of rice to starving people in poor countries paid for by the commercial sponsors who advertise on that page... And it's been running since 2007. "Play and feed hungry people"
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Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Free Rice

#3 Post by Dave B » March 1st, 2016, 8:45 am

They could just give the "free" rice but there seems to be some psychology in this. It's about the evocation of emotion and the conscience whilst offering a sense of participation and achievement to the "player". Manipulation.

I would have put up a new fact about global need with every correct answer, in such a way that it was difficult to ignore.

Later:I should have added, "However, if it genuine and works I am for it."
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#4 Post by Nick » March 1st, 2016, 9:03 am

Dave B wrote:They could just give the "free" rice but there seems to be some psychology in this. It's about the evocation of emotion and the conscience whilst offering a sense of participation and achievement to the "player". Manipulation.
Hmmm.. you have misunderstood the mechanism, Dave. It is the "clicks" which generates the revenue. Without them, no revenue, no grains of rice.
I would have put up a new fact about global need with every correct answer, in such a way that it was difficult to ignore.
Hmmm... Do you honestly think that would rise any extra money? There are plenty of other sites to tell you all you need to know, (and plenty who get it wrong, from Oxfam downwards). In marketing terms, this is segmentation, which seems fair enough to me. 65 billion grains of rice is a lot of rice. If I had thought of this idea, I'd be quite pleased. But probably not as pleased as the recipients have been.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#5 Post by Nick » March 1st, 2016, 9:07 am

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:I thought my TH friends might be interested in this. It's not a long term solution to a real problem (and let's hope it doesn't get in the way of a long term solution), but as a short term, emergency measure, I like it! Waddya think?

*nick toddles off to http://www.freerice.com to have a go....*
What the actual fuck is that? Play this game, get a right answer and the United Nations World Food Programme will give ten grains of rice to starving people in poor countries paid for by the commercial sponsors who advertise on that page... And it's been running since 2007. "Play and feed hungry people"
What (T actual F) is you point.....? :shrug:

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Free Rice

#6 Post by Dave B » March 1st, 2016, 9:34 am

Nick wrote:
Dave B wrote:They could just give the "free" rice but there seems to be some psychology in this. It's about the evocation of emotion and the conscience whilst offering a sense of participation and achievement to the "player". Manipulation.
Hmmm.. you have misunderstood the mechanism, Dave. It is the "clicks" which generates the revenue. Without them, no revenue, no grains of rice.
I would have put up a new fact about global need with every correct answer, in such a way that it was difficult to ignore.
Hmmm... Do you honestly think that would rise any extra money? There are plenty of other sites to tell you all you need to know, (and plenty who get it wrong, from Oxfam downwards). In marketing terms, this is segmentation, which seems fair enough to me. 65 billion grains of rice is a lot of rice. If I had thought of this idea, I'd be quite pleased. But probably not as pleased as the recipients have been.
Yes Nick, but you have to offer an incentive to click.

If it had adverts I could understand, like the Google ads I had on my website (never had enough clicks to earn any income), but I spotted none. Might as well give the 100 grains for simply visiting the site. The psychology of ownership/involvement still holds IMO. Every charity employs psychology, just like any other organisation involved in marketing.

On the "new fact per click" matterreflection tells me this is dodgy. "Negative" facts might put some people off, "achievement" facts would be better.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Free Rice

#7 Post by Alan H » March 1st, 2016, 10:05 am

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:I thought my TH friends might be interested in this. It's not a long term solution to a real problem (and let's hope it doesn't get in the way of a long term solution), but as a short term, emergency measure, I like it! Waddya think?

*nick toddles off to http://www.freerice.com to have a go....*
What the actual fuck is that? Play this game, get a right answer and the United Nations World Food Programme will give ten grains of rice to starving people in poor countries paid for by the commercial sponsors who advertise on that page... And it's been running since 2007. "Play and feed hungry people"
What (T actual F) is you point.....? :shrug:
I thought you might not see a problem with that. Just have a think about how this would work in practice with a commercial company and see if you can spot any moral issues.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#8 Post by Nick » March 1st, 2016, 11:17 am

Nope.... still don't know what you are on about. :shrug:

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Tetenterre
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Joined: March 13th, 2011, 11:36 am

Re: Free Rice

#9 Post by Tetenterre » March 4th, 2016, 10:41 am

When I was working with NEETs some years back, I used to set them onto FreeRice - it doesn't only do literacy, but numeracy, basic science, languages, humanities, etc. The "donating to the needy" proved to be quite an incentive, as did the competitive nature of "levelling up". I'm not in any position to say how much good the donated rice does, but I think the improved self-image (or, if you prefer, "warm, woolly feeling") that some of our society's most damaged youngsters got from doing it was very worthwhile.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#10 Post by Nick » March 4th, 2016, 3:31 pm

That's nice to know, TT. I can see how that would work, in all sorts of ways. As for the rice donated, I don't have particular knowledge of this scheme, but in general, as with any benefits system, long-term supply creates long-term dependency, but in short term bursts, it can be a life-saver.

(Still dunno what Alan's on about, though....)

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animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Free Rice

#11 Post by animist » March 4th, 2016, 6:22 pm

Nick wrote:That's nice to know, TT. I can see how that would work, in all sorts of ways. As for the rice donated, I don't have particular knowledge of this scheme, but in general, as with any benefits system, long-term supply creates long-term dependency, but in short term bursts, it can be a life-saver.

(Still dunno what Alan's on about, though....)
cannot believe that you don't know what Alan H is on about, though this does not put me on his "side". The moral problem is surely that these rich firms should be donating as much as they reasonably can to the desperately poor, rather than using the poverty problem to create some sort of benefit for themselves. OTOH, I can see that altruism is a quality to be valued in commercial companies, even when it is strained (hey, Bill Shakespeare reference!)

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#12 Post by Nick » March 5th, 2016, 4:40 pm

animist wrote:
Nick wrote:(Still dunno what Alan's on about, though....)
cannot believe that you don't know what Alan H is on about, though this does not put me on his "side".
Well thanks for having a go at explaining it, as I really hadn't a clue. And in a sec, I think you'll see why. Because your explanation makes no sense to me.
The moral problem is surely that these rich firms should be donating as much as they reasonably can to the desperately poor, rather than using the poverty problem to create some sort of benefit for themselves.
But don't you see? This is entirely irrelevant to the actions, either positive or negative, of the rice-firms. I don't know what they are doing about rice in the countries or regions being aided, we are not told. They may be doing lots, or they may be doing nothing. If we knew, then we could discuss this.

Secondly, it is not the rice companies who are running the site. All that is happening, is that an altruistic soul has set up a site which attracts traffic. (It may attract extra traffic by being charitable, but that is not the point.) He could accept the advertising revenue, presumably on some sort of pay-per click basis, and just put the money raised into his bank account. Instead of which he donates it to a UN organisation to buy rice. Who knows what price the rice companies are selling at? It may be at cost, or even at a loss for all we know. But the net result is that more rice reaches the needy.
OTOH, I can see that altruism is a quality to be valued in commercial companies, even when it is strained (hey, Bill Shakespeare reference!)
Certainly, but in this case, that is completely irrelevant, isn't it?

If that is indeed what Alan meant, then ISTM he is wrong on this issue, and instead of helping to raise revenue to provide rice, he has just been morally sniffy and enigmatic, based on a misunderstanding.

If I have got that wrong, Alan, either the explanation of your position, or indeed my understanding of the site, please let us know. In the meantime, let's see if we can crowdfund some rice for those in need.

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Dave B
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Re: Free Rice

#13 Post by Dave B » March 5th, 2016, 5:06 pm

But who is paying for this rice and why - especially as they seem to be getting no credit for it on the site, unless I missed something.

It may well be fully altruistic, a charity or somethihg similar on the disribution side but it costs to grow rice and someone has to supply the means to cover it, meither in cash or kind. Who and why no credit?

There seems a link missing in the system, do we know that any rice actually gets to the needy? As I said before, if it works and no-one suffers that's great, I'm all for it, but please pardon my suspicious mind here.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Free Rice

#14 Post by Nick » March 6th, 2016, 2:49 am

Dave B wrote:But who is paying for this rice and why - especially as they seem to be getting no credit for it on the site, unless I missed something.
It is the advertisers who are paying. They are paying because that is the price for putting their product or service before internet punters. Advertisers seldom, in my experience, ever get credit for oiling the wheels of commerce, charity or tax revenues! It's not so much that you re missing something, as expecting something out of the ordinary.
It may well be fully altruistic, a charity or somethihg similar on the disribution side but it costs to grow rice and someone has to supply the means to cover it, meither in cash or kind. Who and why no credit?
I'll try again... the producers are being paid, by the UN agency, at whatever price they agree. It is the site owner who is making the sacrifice. Presumably, because thing think it's a good idea to rescue the starving. I don't think their primary requirement is explicit gratitude, especially as that could well reduce the effectiveness of the very thing they are trying to achieve. Just imagine the criticism: "kids are starving, and here you are, looking for self-glorification....."
There seems a link missing in the system, do we know that any rice actually gets to the needy? As I said before, if it works and no-one suffers that's great, I'm all for it, but please pardon my suspicious mind here.
Fair enough. Maybe we are all being duped. I'm inclined to think not, but if you feel that way, do drop an email to the site, and ask for confirmation. If it is a fraud (on us and the advertisers) then we will be pleased to know. If not, then the recipients will be benefitted, by eliminating that doubt from the minds of participants.

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Dave B
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Re: Free Rice

#15 Post by Dave B » March 6th, 2016, 8:19 am

Sorry, Nick, but either I am going selectively blind or we are looking at two different sites.

What adverts?

If there were any the system would be complete.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Dave B
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Re: Free Rice

#16 Post by Dave B » March 6th, 2016, 8:30 am

OK, looking further into it it appears to be a function of the UN. Thus I could understsnd if it were more "educational", as I think I suggested above, each correct answer 'won' you a positive fact, maybe incorrect ones negative facts.

One hopes they do not ration out the food entirely proportionaly to thr response to this web site!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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