Badger cull

[jaywhat]

Brian May said that the day the first badger was killed he would not drink another drop of milk. We have since tried goat's milk which is, of course, quite a bit dearer. We feel we would like the dairy industry to get some sort of message.
I really do not accept that the TB connection has been fully proven.
Any views?

[Manuel]

I agree. From what I've read, a cull would be disproportionate and probably futile. There's still time, just, to add your 'signiture' to the e-petition if you're interested, although they already have the 100k required for consideration by MPs.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... ions/38257

[jaywhat]

Thanks Manuel. Done that.

[getreal]

Signed.

What I cannot understand is that there is no bovine TB in Scotland yet we have badgers too. Has anyone looked at why this should be? I've asked loads of friends (including those involved in farming) and they can't tell me. I'm sure our TB-free badgers don't respect the border with England and likewise the English badgers, Scotlands border.

[jaywhat]

Most humans don't respect the border either

[rana]

I have started drinking Goats Milk as a protest against the cull, and apart from it being a little more expensive it tastes the same to me. The cull seems to be a no win situation becuase if it works, they will move to the next area and kill another 1500 Badgers, if it does not work then 1500 Badgers have been murdered for nothing.
Farmers should budget for the loss of animals and ofset funds towards BTB prevention. The river tweed probably prevents badgers or other carriers of the disease from crossing into Scotland, which infers among other things that the disease started south of the border.
I do believe Scotland is free of the Grey squirrel, now there's a thought?

[jaywhat]

We now get goat's butter.
I suppose if one wants to make a point one needs to tell the dairy industry that goat products, although dearer, are something people are turning to.

[Tetenterre]

I do believe Scotland is free of the Grey squirrel

Believe me, it isn't! (My sister co-ordinates the SWT/SNH initiative to protect the reds.)

[Dave B]

We now get goat's butter.
I suppose if one wants to make a point one needs to tell the dairy industry that goat products, although dearer, are something people are turning to.

Trouble is, if goat milk products get too popular does his simply mean we will end up with factory goat farming?

[Alan H]

We now get goat's butter.
I suppose if one wants to make a point one needs to tell the dairy industry that goat products, although dearer, are something people are turning to.

Trouble is, if goat milk products get too popular does his simply mean we will end up with factory goat farming?

Presumably requiring far more goats that cows!

[Dave B]

We now get goat's butter.
I suppose if one wants to make a point one needs to tell the dairy industry that goat products, although dearer, are something people are turning to.

Trouble is, if goat milk products get too popular does his simply mean we will end up with factory goat farming?

Presumably requiring far more goats that cows!

Until they develop giant goats (or at least ones with very long legs) with twenty litre udders!

[lewist]

The river tweed probably prevents badgers or other carriers of the disease from crossing into Scotland, which infers among other things that the disease started south of the border.
I do believe Scotland is free of the Grey squirrel, now there's a thought?

Hey, Rana! Welcome to TH!

There are lots of both badgers and grey squirrels (bushy tailed rats) in Scotland. However, the grey squirrels stop at the Highland line, I think because they need trees to migrate. There are none where I live in Badenoch, but lots of red squirrels.

[rana]

Thank you for enlightening me about the grey squirrels you guys, as for the goats milk I wont nessesarilly stick to it, but if a lot of people switch to goats milk, someone might get the message that the majority of people are against the cull. The farmers are having a tough time, and I empathize with them, but killing badgers becuase of a disease in Cattle is inhumane.
The impending cull could also give a green light to Badger Baiters and their sickening activities; the cutbacks have meant a shortage of wildlife officers, who up to now, have been trying to protect these much loved animals.

[Manuel]

Despite widespread opposition, Government badger killing probably to start tomorrow....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... l-mindless

[Alan H]

The in-phrase these days is policy-based evidence, rather than what it should be, evidence-based policy.

Most Governments seem to be very good at ignoring evidence, but this one seems to have taken it to a whole new level..

[rana]

The experts say that the BTB virus has been carried by foxes, deer, Mink, and other mustelids, if the virus had been contained just in Gloucester, then shooting all these animals including Badgers as they did with the rabies outbreak would make some sense.
The government will relate to the events of that day, However the risk to people was 100 times more, and becuase it was contained the task was quite different.
It is the cattle that should be immunised, and this is where the FSA FSU DEFRA CA and the Government should concentrate their efforts.

[Nick]

The in-phrase these days is policy-based evidence, rather than what it should be, evidence-based policy.

Most Governments seem to be very good at ignoring evidence, but this one seems to have taken it to a whole new level..

Hmmm... I don't think that's fair. The cull is only being carried out in a few selected areas to try to establish some evidence. So far, there are advocates on both sides, who claim opposite results. Perhaps a trial is the only way to settle it.

I am not, in saying that, choosing one side or the other, but I do like badgers, even if they do dig up the lawn.

[Alan H]

The in-phrase these days is policy-based evidence, rather than what it should be, evidence-based policy.

Most Governments seem to be very good at ignoring evidence, but this one seems to have taken it to a whole new level..

Hmmm... I don't think that's fair. The cull is only being carried out in a few selected areas to try to establish some evidence. So far, there are advocates on both sides, who claim opposite results. Perhaps a trial is the only way to settle it.

No. The killing of up to one third of the badger population is not a 'trial' by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, the trials have already happened: Lord John Krebs was the architect of the trials that ended in 2007: he does not support the present slaughter. And the Government's Chief Scientist says the cull is not supported by scientific evidence - all we can do is wonder why they are pushing ahead with this move - which might be popular with farmers, but may make little or no difference to TB.

[getreal]

even if they do dig up the lawn.

You have a lawn?!

I still don't understand why there is no bovine TB is Scotland. What's so different about here?

[jaywhat]

Buying goats milk (and other goat products) has the following effects:-

1 it sends a message to the dairy industry to think again about culling wild animals
2 it tastes nice
3 it may save badgers' lives
4 it may hit TB in that I do not think goats get it (I could be wrong)
5 it may have an effect on eating beef, but I do not see how