INFORMATION

This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. Some of these cookies are essential to make our site work and others help us to improve by giving us some insight into how the site is being used.

For further information, see our Privacy Policy.

Continuing to use this website is acceptance of these cookies.

We are not accepting any new registrations.

Euthanasia

Enter here to explore ethical issues and discuss the meaning and source of morality.
Message
Author
born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#21 Post by born2wonder » December 6th, 2009, 11:55 am

Latest post of the previous page:

grammar king wrote:
born2wonder wrote:1. I wasn't yelling (If you percieved that I was) I was stressing because I had already written
the same thing twice and would like to move the topic foward (Sorry for any offence caused)
Well because this cannot be used as a solution to Euthanasia because there is no way to merge ethics into rationality.

Wow, that's a big claim. Ethics can be rational and I would argue that they should be rational.

Secondly, you're on a humanist forum. We are obviously going to look for an ethical solution. Ethical and practical solutions are not mutually exclusive.
You could be right however I don't understand so You would have to give me an example that prove that they can go together. I personally can't think of a situation in Unvolutary Uneutanasia where ethics and rationalism go together and don't effect a party in the situation for the worse in euthanasia.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#22 Post by born2wonder » December 6th, 2009, 11:56 am

grammar king wrote:
born2wonder wrote:1. I wasn't yelling (If you percieved that I was) I was stressing because I had already written
the same thing twice and would like to move the topic foward (Sorry for any offence caused)
Well because this cannot be used as a solution to Euthanasia because there is no way to merge ethics into rationality.

Wow, that's a big claim. Ethics can be rational and I would argue that they should be rational.

Secondly, you're on a humanist forum. We are obviously going to look for an ethical solution. Ethical and practical solutions are not mutually exclusive.
You could be right however I don't understand so You would have to give me an example that prove that they can go together. I personally can't think of a situation in Unvolutary euthanasia where ethics and rationalism go together and don't effect a party in the situation for the worse.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#23 Post by born2wonder » December 6th, 2009, 5:13 pm

THANK YOU
I would like thank the people who expressed their views on this topic I am saying this as a final comment because I now have enough information and views on which to write an essay.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#24 Post by Fia » December 6th, 2009, 8:12 pm

Glad we could help :) May you approach all your studies so thoughtfully...

...and i do hope you will continue to pop into TH and join in the conversations we have here. It is very refreshing to have a young person's viewpoint :)

User avatar
grammar king
Posts: 869
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 2:42 am

Re: Euthanasia

#25 Post by grammar king » December 6th, 2009, 8:47 pm

Oi! I'm 20!!

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#26 Post by Fia » December 6th, 2009, 9:29 pm

I do believe, GK that you are 6 years older than b2w. Now believe me, in my 50s, 6 years is merely a mild hangover in the perception of time... :sad:

It's just particularly good to see young folk here, and I've always included you in that GK :) Had this technology been around for us older posters we'd no doubt all be crippled by repetitive strain injury by now...

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#27 Post by born2wonder » December 7th, 2009, 4:35 pm

Fia wrote:Glad we could help :) May you approach all your studies so thoughtfully...

...and i do hope you will continue to pop into TH and join in the conversations we have here. It is very refreshing to have a young person's viewpoint :)
I never intented leaving and have not I will continue to answer and ask post from a under 16 point of view.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

User avatar
getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#28 Post by getreal » December 7th, 2009, 5:11 pm

Good luck with your essay born2wonder. I have enjoyed reading your posts :D
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

smithgerry
Posts: 3
Joined: April 6th, 2010, 6:40 am

Re: Euthanasia

#29 Post by smithgerry » April 6th, 2010, 8:26 am

The work or try of ending the life of an particular suffering from a terminal illness or an intractable condition, as by lethal injection or the suspension of amazing medical treatment.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Euthanasia

#30 Post by Nick » April 6th, 2010, 10:34 am

Erm..... do you want to run that past me again?

Cremnlin
Posts: 8
Joined: April 9th, 2010, 4:28 am

Re: Euthanasia

#31 Post by Cremnlin » April 9th, 2010, 5:58 am

My view is that if a person rationally chooses to kill themselves then they should be able to. As far as I'm aware, however, it's technically illegal to kill yourself (even though there are no repercussions). This law gets in the way when there's another person involved. So, I see how the status quo may perceive the ones that assist in suicide as murderers.

Having said that, I think that the law should be lifted and it should be legal to take ones life by yourself or with the help of another if there is no doubt that it is the person's sole and sane decision.

User avatar
jaywhat
Posts: 15807
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#32 Post by jaywhat » April 9th, 2010, 7:12 am

Cremnlin wrote:... As far as I'm aware, however, it's technically illegal to kill yourself (even though there are no repercussions).
I have the same views as you on the subject, but would like to point out that in UK, suicide is not illegal.
It is the helping another person do it that is still illegal - although the latest decisions have come out on the side of treating each case separately and in many cases not prosecuting.
The law in such cases makes a very clear distinction between 'assisted suicide' and 'euthanasia'. Of course, there is a very clear distinction and they are sometimes confused by people.

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#33 Post by Marian » April 9th, 2010, 11:49 am

Cremnlin wrote: Having said that, I think that the law should be lifted and it should be legal to take ones life by yourself or with the help of another if there is no doubt that it is the person's sole and sane decision.
I am in agreement but I'm curious as to how one can confirm that the person in question is making a "sole and sane decision"?
Transformative fire...

Cremnlin
Posts: 8
Joined: April 9th, 2010, 4:28 am

Re: Euthanasia

#34 Post by Cremnlin » April 9th, 2010, 8:14 pm

Jaywhat, I'm from the US and laws are different here. I think that the government here views suicide as a loss of potential tax money :sad:
Marian, I know it seems ridiculous but I was thinking of maybe a system where you go to a special facility were they sell suicides. This could be seen as a sure, professional, and painless way of going out. I'm not sure how well this will work since many might just go with the old fashion gun to the head. If it does work, however, mental exams can be done before delivering the suicide.

User avatar
Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#35 Post by Alan C. » April 9th, 2010, 9:20 pm

Cremnlin
however, mental exams can be done before delivering the suicide.
The vast majority (all?) the assisted suicides by UK residents, are brought about by one or both of two things; terminal degenerative illness, and or extreme pain/suffering.
The government knows this, the medical staff know this, and the judicial system knows it.
"No mental exams" required.
If somebody just wants to commit suicide for mental health reasons (a different thing altogether) all they have to do is jump under a train, off a bridge, whatever.

What the law does as it stands is to force people to travel to the likes of Switzerland while they are pretty much still compus mentus, thereby having to terminate their life earlier than should be necessary.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#36 Post by Marian » April 10th, 2010, 10:46 am

Cremnlin wrote:Jaywhat, I'm from the US and laws are different here. I think that the government here views suicide as a loss of potential tax money :sad:
That would not surprise me! I suppose another factor would be the heavy influence of Christianity in the US where suicide is considered a sin.
Cremnlin wrote:Marian, I know it seems ridiculous but I was thinking of maybe a system where you go to a special facility were they sell suicides. This could be seen as a sure, professional, and painless way of going out. I'm not sure how well this will work since many might just go with the old fashion gun to the head. If it does work, however, mental exams can be done before delivering the suicide.
Gun to the head is really, really messy. You'd certainly be delivering a message to whomever got to clean that up. :sick: Not to mention that if you don't get it right, the consequences to your life is pretty dramatic.
As Alan C mentioned, the Swiss have Dignitas which is place that delivers assisted suicide to foreigners. There is a test of sorts in that if you want to choose this, you've got to be interviewed by an independent doctor twice. Just to make sure. Here's the source for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignitas_( ... sia_group)
I think Oregon and Washington have physician-assisted suicide.

Btw, our resident expert on the panel is Alan H.
Transformative fire...

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#37 Post by Marian » April 10th, 2010, 10:51 am

Alan C. wrote: If somebody just wants to commit suicide for mental health reasons (a different thing altogether) all they have to do is jump under a train, off a bridge, whatever.
Dignitas does also provide assisted suicide to people with mental health issues but I think the criteria for qualifying are stricter. Much cheaper to stay local and use a bridge.
Transformative fire...

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#38 Post by Alan H » April 13th, 2010, 2:03 pm

Marian wrote:Btw, our resident expert on the panel is Alan H.
I wouldn't go that far! I'm just the webmaster of Friends at the End.

One thing is certain: there is still uncertainty about the implications of the recent guidelines on assisted suicide and it may take some test cases to really sort things out. Meanwhile, the campaign to change the law must continue!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
jaywhat
Posts: 15807
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#39 Post by jaywhat » April 13th, 2010, 2:14 pm

Perhaps one should mention 'Final Exit: The Practicalities of Self Deliverance and Assisted Suicide for the Dying' by Derek Humphry. My edition (1996) is a bit old and there may be an updated edition but it is a useful read.
As for some of the ways people use to die I feel it is worth researching the matter in advance of getting to that stage. Jumping off a bridge or into the path of a train is pretty awful - even life-changing - for the people concerned.


[Yes the updated version is 2002]

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#40 Post by Marian » April 13th, 2010, 5:15 pm

jaywhat wrote:Perhaps one should mention 'Final Exit: The Practicalities of Self Deliverance and Assisted Suicide for the Dying' by Derek Humphry. My edition (1996) is a bit old and there may be an updated edition but it is a useful read.
As for some of the ways people use to die I feel it is worth researching the matter in advance of getting to that stage. Jumping off a bridge or into the path of a train is pretty awful - even life-changing - for the people concerned.
[Yes the updated version is 2002]
I'm going to see if I can find that book at the library. You are right, Jaywhat, bridges and trains are a horrific way to die, not only for the suicidal person but for those who are left behind, including emergency personnel.
Transformative fire...

User avatar
jaywhat
Posts: 15807
Joined: July 5th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Re: Euthanasia

#41 Post by jaywhat » April 13th, 2010, 5:17 pm

In some places it is banned but it was published in Canada so you should find it.

Post Reply