Amazon bans vile computer game but...

[DougS]

...aren't they being 'thought police'.

I hate the sound of this game and am horrified that anybody would want to play it but I don't see why it's any different from any other fantasy violent play, involving soldiers, guns etc. Or is it?

In Rapelay, gamers direct a character to sexually assault a mother and her two young daughters at an underground station, before raping any of a selection female characters.

The game was intended for release just in Japan, but was on offer to British buyers through Amazon Marketplace, the section of the online store's website open to third-party sellers.

But Amazon has now withdrawn the game after complaints from users, deeming it to be inappropriate. "We determined that we did not want to be selling this particular item," a spokeswoman said.

Rapelay was developed by the Japanese production house Illusion, which makes a number of sexually violent games for the domestic market. Their other titles include "Battle Raper" and "Artificial Girl".

A spokesman for the company said: "We believe there is no problem with the software, which has cleared the domestic ratings of an ethics watchdog body."

Keith Vaz, the Labour MP for Leicester East who has previously spoken out against computer games that promote violence, condemned the game.

"It is intolerable that anyone would purchase a game that simulates the criminal offence of rape," he told the Belfast Telegraph.

Rapelay, which was released in 2006, encourages players to force the virtual woman they rape to have an abortion. If they are allowed to give birth the woman throws the player's character under a train, according to reviews of the game. It also has a feature allowing several players to team up against individual women.

Source.

[Paolo]

The game will be available from other retailers I am sure. Some newsagents don't stock pornography - are they also being thought police? The people who want the game are not being punished for wanting it, so there is no reprimand or action against them. Any retailer can make a decision about what they choose to sell and as long as that decision is not being based on the whims of individuals or groups with a particular interest I don't see the problem. If victims of rape were calling for Amazon to stop stocking the game, I think it would actually weaken their stance somewhat - because they would be responding to pressure rather than making a decision based on their own policies.

[Nick]

as long as that decision is not being based on the whims of individuals or groups with a particular interest I don't see the problem.

I assume I am right in thinking you are referring to individuals and groups outside the company selling the games....?

Even then, I am not in total agreement. If it takes an outside agency, a group or an individual to make the retailer aware of their faux pas, then so be it.

However, though there may be economic expediency for so doing, caving in to loony pressure groups (think Danish cartoons) can be very destructive to society as a whole..

[Paolo]

as long as that decision is not being based on the whims of individuals or groups with a particular interest I don't see the problem.

...I am not in total agreement. If it takes an outside agency, a group or an individual to make the retailer aware of their faux pas, then so be it.

I think that outside agencies should be able to inform the retailer, but I still think that the retailer needs to formulate ethical decisions within the context of their own set of policies and procedures rather than simply reacting to pressure. Ideally, organisations (including retailers) should have an ethical committee of some sort to deal with such issues and that committee should be asking for input from a balanced range of external sources to inform their decisions.

[helena h]

...aren't they being 'thought police'.

I hate the sound of this game and am horrified that anybody would want to play it but I don't see why it's any different from any other fantasy violent play, involving soldiers, guns etc. Or is it?

In Rapelay, gamers direct a character to sexually assault a mother and her two young daughters at an underground station, before raping any of a selection female characters.

The game was intended for release just in Japan, but was on offer to British buyers through Amazon Marketplace, the section of the online store's website open to third-party sellers.

But Amazon has now withdrawn the game after complaints from users, deeming it to be inappropriate. "We determined that we did not want to be selling this particular item," a spokeswoman said.

Rapelay was developed by the Japanese production house Illusion, which makes a number of sexually violent games for the domestic market. Their other titles include "Battle Raper" and "Artificial Girl".

A spokesman for the company said: "We believe there is no problem with the software, which has cleared the domestic ratings of an ethics watchdog body."

Keith Vaz, the Labour MP for Leicester East who has previously spoken out against computer games that promote violence, condemned the game.

"It is intolerable that anyone would purchase a game that simulates the criminal offence of rape," he told the Belfast Telegraph.

Rapelay, which was released in 2006, encourages players to force the virtual woman they rape to have an abortion. If they are allowed to give birth the woman throws the player's character under a train, according to reviews of the game. It also has a feature allowing several players to team up against individual women.

Source.

Is this really as bad as what some goes on , on the typical Friday , Weekend pub crawl around the uk ? ( taxi any one ? )

The daughters , are not exactly ( young ) in the sense of being under 10, from what I've seen they look more like sisters .

BTW rape seems to be quite a common theme promoted in Japenese culture in cartoons from the little spam i've seen advertising it - even alien rape !!

[Paolo]

Is this really as bad as what some goes on , on the typical Friday , Weekend pub crawl around the uk ? ( taxi any one ? )

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape. The fact that rape happens is a sad reality but it is not an example of typical behaviour. I just hope that games like this one don't have the social effect of making rape become a more typical behaviour.

[helena h]

Is this really as bad as what some goes on , on the typical Friday , Weekend pub crawl around the uk ? ( taxi any one ? )

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape. The fact that rape happens is a sad reality but it is not an example of typical behaviour. I just hope that games like this one don't have the social effect of making rape become a more typical behaviour.

I have no " weekend " nevermind pub crawl in my physical condition - even if i wanted too

I think rape is all around us , single mothers in the uk for example - who allow themselves to be exploited by freeloading willies just to get free housing or because they actually ( choke ) thought THEY were sincere in staying with them.

I suppose you could argue the true rapists might not be attractive or be violent or whatever but overall outcome ( if you pardon the pun ) is the same , no ?

One knocked , and mentally scarred for life with a kid to used a punchbag.

[getreal]

Is this really as bad as what some goes on , on the typical Friday , Weekend pub crawl around the uk ? ( taxi any one ? )

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape. The fact that rape happens is a sad reality but it is not an example of typical behaviour. I just hope that games like this one don't have the social effect of making rape become a more typical behaviour.

I have no " weekend " nevermind pub crawl in my physical condition - even if i wanted too

I think rape is all around us , single mothers in the uk for example - who allow themselves to be exploited by freeloading willies just to get free housing or because they actually ( choke ) thought THEY were sincere in staying with them.

I suppose you could argue the true rapists might not be attractive or be violent or whatever but overall outcome ( if you pardon the pun ) is the same , no ?

One knocked , and mentally scarred for life with a kid to used a punchbag.

Rape is (mercifully) not "all around us". I have never, nor have any of my friends been raped.
You also seem to be confusing domestic violence (which is abhorrent) with rape. They are not synonymous.
The attractiveness, or otherwise, of rapists is immaterial.
Rape is always violent.
I don't understand your pun.

[helena h]

quote="getreal"]

quote="Paolo"]

Is this really as bad as what some goes on , on the typical Friday , Weekend pub crawl around the uk ? ( taxi any one ? )

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape. The fact that rape happens is a sad reality but it is not an example of typical behaviour. I just hope that games like this one don't have the social effect of making rape become a more typical behaviour.

I have no " weekend " nevermind pub crawl in my physical condition - even if i wanted too

I think rape is all around us , single mothers in the uk for example - who allow themselves to be exploited by freeloading willies just to get free housing or because they actually ( choke ) toO ho wught TEY were sincere in staying withe them.

I suppose you could argue the true rapists might not be attractive or be violent or whatever but overall outcome ( if you pardon the pun ) is the same , no ?

One knocked , and mentally scarred for life with a kid to used a punchbag.[/quote]

Rape is (mercifully) not "all around us". I have never, nor have any of my friends been raped.
You also seem to be confusing domestic violence (which is abhorrent) with rape. They are not synonymous.
The attractiveness, or otherwise, of rapists is immaterial.
Rape is always violent.
I don't understand your pun.[/quote]

Rophynol + Alcohol = no violence and a free taxi ride

[getreal]

Coertion, trickery and intimidation are all violent acts.

Administering drugs covertly ammounts to violence.

[Alan H]

Coertion, trickery and intimidation are all violent acts.

Administering drugs covertly ammounts to violence.

I agree. Violence isn't always just about physical force.

[Gurdur]

This thread is awesome in its development. Down to the free taxi rides.

Unfortunately, it's also a good example of how people can marginalise their own positions. For example, if Amazon not selling a particular game is supposed to be thought-policing, then Amazon not selling say games that include a detailed and accurate groundplan of the House Of Lords and helpful hints on how to build bombs is also thought-policing; not selling the latest non-game rocket launchers can also be seen as unfair censorship.

Or in other words, with all respect, bollocks.

Every private business has a right not to sell any particular product; Amazon is not discriminating against any group of customers, but instead is simply refusing to sell one particular product.

Next: a game actually promoting rape? That shouldn't just be not sold, that should bloody well be banned. Any such "game" runs a nasty risk of promotion of acceptance of rape; and it's bloody sick.

And as for thought-policing: thought-policing refers to actually policing what people actually think. Whether the game is simply not sold, or actually banned, it has fuck all to do with thought-policing, and such hyperbole does not help anyone or any cause, least of all freedom. Freedom is not served by some sort of ideology of libertine indulgance of those who have the money; freedom is something altogether a great deal more important and valuble than that.

[Gurdur]

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape.

So you're not from Essex then, Paulo?

[Paolo]

I don't know about your typical weekend pub crawls, but mine have never involved rape.

So you're not from Essex then, Paulo?

Close, I'm from Hertfordshire but in my youth I've had several nights out in Essex (mostly Harlow, but Colchester on occasion).

[helena h]

Coertion, trickery and intimidation are all violent acts.

Administering drugs covertly ammounts to violence.

I agree. Violence isn't always just about physical force.

http://www.sheldrake.org/controversies/randi.html

here you will enjoy this , you certainly do him proud.

[Gurdur]

For the uninitiated, Rupert Sheldrake is a former biochemist who first started with a minorly whacky theory about the formation of embryonic body morphology, and ended up promoting corn circles, canine ESP and the like.

How and why he makes an entrance here, I am not so sure.

Maybe it's because Sheldrake gets very very angry about Randi, but since I am (reasonably) confident that neither Sheldrake nor Randi are in favour of rape or of rape games, the connection remains unilluminated.

[Gurdur]

http://www.sheldrake.org/controversies/randi.html

here you will enjoy this , you certainly do him proud.

I went to the trouble of reading this, then looking up what Randi himself has to say.

On June 20, 2008, Randi commented that the JREF might be running a test on Sheldrake's theory of dog ESP, if Sheldrake and the JREF could come to an agreement about the procedures for testing.

Randi also commented that:

When I was last in touch with Rupert Sheldrake, he informed me that the owners of a particularly gifted dog over which he’d rhapsodized were now forbidding me access to the pooch because of my negative attitude.

Of course, it is still beyond me what all this has to do with rape.

Rape, rophynol, dogs, ESP? The mind boggles, then shuts down and hides in self-protection.

[Alan H]

Coertion, trickery and intimidation are all violent acts.

Administering drugs covertly ammounts to violence.

I agree. Violence isn't always just about physical force.

http://www.sheldrake.org/controversies/randi.html

here you will enjoy this , you certainly do him proud.

Why? Please explain.

[getreal]

http://www.sheldrake.org/controversies/randi.html

here you will enjoy this , you certainly do him proud.

Why? Please explain

You took the words out of my mouth, Alan

(Sorry for the rubbish quotey bits, It would not accept so many quotes)

[grammar king]

On June 20, 2008, Randi commented that the JREF might be running a test on Sheldrake's theory of dog ESP, if Sheldrake and the JREF could come to an agreement about the procedures for testing.

Randi also commented that:

When I was last in touch with Rupert Sheldrake, he informed me that the owners of a particularly gifted dog over which he’d rhapsodized were now forbidding me access to the pooch because of my negative attitude.

Richard Wiseman's done some work on this dog already, I believe. They found that although the dog did tend to go to the window when the owners were coming home (that is, if it's the same dog), they also discovered that it just spent most of its time over by the window anyway. Hardly impressive.